The Public Lands Podcast EPISODE 2: Building Community Through Shared Spaces – with Tyler Murdock
Kim Davison: 00:11
Hi everyone, I’m Kim.
Finola Mcdonald: 00:13
And I’m Finola. Welcome to the Public Lands Podcast.
Kim Davison: 00:18
We are so excited to introduce today’s guest. Welcome Tyler Murdock, Deputy Director of Salt Lake City Public Lands to the podcast.
Finola Mcdonald: 00:26
Tyler is an integral part of our team, and we are super lucky to have him as a leader in our department. So thank you, Tyler, for being here.
Tyler Murdock: 00:34
Thank you, Kim, and thank you, Finola. It’s great to be here.
Finola Mcdonald: 00:37
Let’s dive right in. So, Tyler, you are Deputy Director of Public Lands. Kind of a double triple question to get you started. We know you’re local to Utah and you’ve spent many hours recreating throughout the state, but can you tell us a little bit more about yourself? And have you always been interested in the work with Public Lands, outdoor spaces, our community? How did you kind of fall into all of this?
Tyler Murdock: 00:59
Oh, good question. to start off. First of all, thanks. I’m really excited. I think one of the things that uh Public Lands needs to do more of is telling our story and connecting people to the great people that we have here working in our department. So when it comes to my story, yeah, I am a fifth-generation Utah, I guess if that’s how you say it. Utah. So deep roots, uh, early, you know, pioneer heritage, also uh indigenous heritage. So my great-great-grandmother was Shoshone, my my great-great-grandfather was um an early Mormon pioneer. So long history here in Utah. Um, but I think I was very fortunate to grow up in a family that cared deeply about public lands. I know not everyone has that opportunity, but my dad, um, I think that was one of the most important things he instilled and value and a value that we still have in our family and I still carry today is the importance of connecting with nature, um, connecting with wild places. So when I was younger, that often meant um being mostly in the desert. So in the San Rafael Swell, Cedar Mesa, Escalante area, and also in the Wasatch Front in the mountains. Um, and then just I lived right on adjacent to the foothills, so spending a lot of time uh building forts in the foothills. And that’s how um I think my love for the natural world started. Uh as I got older, I think um that definitely was something I always wanted to go into. Um in school, it was primarily environmental law and policy, is what I was interested in. Um I went to the University of Utah, graduated there, and then went back and did graduate school in public policy and urban planning. Uh my work history has been in public lands the entirety of time, aside from maybe one job when I was in college. And I’ve worked at pretty much all levels of public land management, you know, the federal level, nonprofit level, uh, state level, and now here at the municipal level. And I I talk about this a lot, but I think one thing I love so much about working at the municipal level is it’s the location where public land managers get to work so closely with residents in the community and connecting them to the natural world. In Utah, we’re so fortunate to have just, I think what, 65% of our land is public lands. Um incredible, some of the most incredible public lands in the world in this state. Uh the reality is though, not everybody has access to those. And so when you think about our communities here in Salt Lake City and in the in the in the county, not everybody is going down to the desert, not everyone even has access to the mountains. And so making sure in a growing city that our population has access to nature is really important. And I think it’s one of the coolest things about our job here at the city level is because the people who use our public lands use them every day. This is not something that they’re doing once a month. They are using these spaces every day, and it’s the closest way that people interact with city government. And so I think that’s something that’s really cool about public lands. Uh, you know, I think one of my favorite kind of poets or authors is Wendell Berry, and uh, he talks a lot about uh the importance of land and connection, but it’s like if you don’t know where you are, you don’t know who you are. And I think um for me that’s just always been something I’ve lived my life by and wanting to connect to both the histories and to the the nature around us. So uh that’s kind of a summary of yeah, who I am.
Kim Davison: 04:08
Well, that’s very powerful, and we’re we’re lucky to have somebody who has such a deep history with public lands in your role. So again, we’re very lucky to have you. But we are interested, I’m sure every day looks a little bit little bit different, but what does kind of a day in the life look like for you as a Deputy Director of Public Lands?
Tyler Murdock: 04:25
I thought about this one, uh and it changes every day. I’m not sure what that day looks like sometimes. Um when I came to the city, I was worried that I would be too focused in one small area geographically, and I was worried that the diversity of work wouldn’t be there. Um that’s the exact opposite. And I think uh simply put, as deputy director, I think it is my responsibility, uh one of my responsibilities to make sure our teams, which is upwards of 150 full-time staff just within our parks, uh, have the resources they need to do their jobs and to connect the larger mission of public land, which is maintaining and protecting and stewarding public spaces for residents and visitors of Salt Lake. So I think also directing on a policy level. So that’s working on budgets, that’s working on partnerships. Um but I also have been with a department for over 10 years now, and I think because I’ve been in several different jobs, I sometimes blur those lines in what my responsibilities are today, which I I think I find value in. And I guess what I mean by that is I still find ways to connect with uh the community, find ways to connect with people on the ground. And I’ve always I think one of the values I have in my life is relationships, whether that’s here at work or uh in the community. And so finding ways to connect with people. So just you mean yesterday I spent a couple hours uh with one of our park supervisors at Liberty Park looking at park restrooms, figuring out how we can better provide public restrooms uh safely and cleanly to residents of Salt Lake. Um the day before I was out with a group of um uh elderly individuals in our community who have been advocating for park benches. Um it seems like a simple thing, but something that they real feel really passionate about. And so um, you know, I have an opportunity to connect with both staff and uh community members on a on a weekly basis. That’s something I still really try to focus on at least um a couple times a week.
Finola Mcdonald: 06:17
That’s amazing. Yeah. Um, and I mean it’s clear you do so much work in our community and for the community, connecting people to our public lands. But what does community mean to you?
Tyler Murdock: 06:29
Well, I I won’t pretend to be a sociologist uh and and give a perfect definition of that. But I think when I think of community, you know, you you often think of the geographic communities, the where you live, the cities where you live, or place-based communities. I think more importantly, and this connects to the work that we get to do every day, it’s the relational part of community building. Um, so being part of a group or an organization that comes together around shared values uh to provide safe and places where we can trust each other. And so, you know, I’m a big sports fan, uh, so I often find myself in different sports communities and you know, working towards common goals in those. But I think the same exists in in public spaces. Uh and you know, I think as I go out and recreate in the foothills or in natural areas, I’m a a birder at heart, and so I love to connect and see birds um or plants, and I think being in a public space uh with other people who care about those things, that’s a shared value that we have. And it’s a community that we’ve we’re building within uh within our organization. I think in a time like today, where we we probably experience more uh isolation, more divided, um more divided society. I think we do things on our own a lot more. We don’t have as many social connections as maybe we did 20 or 30 years ago. Uh, I think parks can and should be the foundation of a city’s community building. And when you think a lot of our community institutions or social connection institutions, many of those we don’t participate in, whether that’s religious or uh different things, I think a lot of those have been on the decline in the last 20 years. One thing that hasn’t is parks. They’re the same. They’re they’re the same today. They’ve many of our parks have been there for a hundred years. Uh we haven’t gotten rid of any parks. Yes, they may change and they may need to change in terms of the what they offer, but they will always remain a place as an alternative location where you can have that social connection. Uh I think sociologists talk about that as like the third place. So outside of work.
Kim Davison: 08:35
I was just gonna say my friends and I always talk about like the idea of a third place.
Tyler Murdock: 08:38
Yeah.
Finola Mcdonald: 08:39
And parks are perfect.
Tyler Murdock: 08:40
Exactly. I think uh parks become that. Outside of home, work, and school, parks are often the place that we go and have some sort of interaction. Uh and I’ve always known that was the case. Um, but I think that’s when I had kids, when we would go to the playground, we used to go to Liberty Park every Sunday, we’d grab coffee and pastries at Thule, go sit at the playground. Uh, and I was always amazed at how much, you know, how quickly my kids would come back with friends. I’m like, why is it so easy for kids to make friends? Well, they were it’s a place of training social interaction, and I think that’s something that uh as I witnessed them growing older and and doing that, that was really exciting to me. And I think that’s something that still exists today in many of our parks.
Kim Davison: 09:21
Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, I think it’s so special. I grew up in Salt Lake as well, and I mean I had my birthday parties growing up in parks, like it’s such a core part of who we are as we grow up, and I think in the it’s important to encourage people to continue using them throughout their life.
Finola Mcdonald: 09:37
Yeah. Even not having grown up in Salt Lake City, but somewhere far more urban, um parks were always always a place where people like kids from different neighborhoods came. So like even if even if we didn’t have like all of our people in one spot, we always had like kids from different neighborhoods coming to the park, and after school, even when we were teenagers, like that’s where you went to go see everybody, and it was always just awesome. Yeah, yeah.
Tyler Murdock: 10:04
Yeah, I mean, I think you you bring up that that’s a place where we connect with people who are often different from us too, right? Um, different beliefs, different backgrounds, different worldviews. That’s probably the best opportunity we’re gonna have every day to interact with somebody that has a different world experience. And I think in in a divided society that maybe we politically that we live in right now, I think parks can be such a powerful connector. And that’s not just anecdotal, there’s plenty of data behind that. I think one of our core partners within our department is Trust for Public Lands, which is a national organization that advocates for public park space, both on a national level through national parks, but also locally. They’ve been a lot more involved locally in recent years. They helped us pass the 2022 parks bond. Um, but their data, you know, they track park scores for every city in the country. And they found a direct correlation to cities that have access, better access to parks and higher scores. They find so more rates of volunteerism, better social cohesion. Um, so I think there’s it’s not just anecdotal, there is evidence that having parks in our public spaces uh increase those social connections.
Kim Davison: 11:12
Absolutely. So I feel like you’ve touched on this a little bit, but just to follow up and dive, keep diving deeper, what role do you think community plays in public lands and vice versa?
Tyler Murdock: 11:26
Oh man, I I think I’ll start with what role does community play. I think this has to be a key of what everything we do here at public lands. We’re we work for the public, we work for the visitors and residents of Salt Lake City. And so when I think of um what role the community plays, I think when we involve the community more in park design, in park activation, we end up with better results, we make better decisions. Salt Lake, uh up until maybe 2022, uh historically a lot of our parks hadn’t changed a ton in the last 50 years. And so I think we’re at a unique opportunity where the past two years we’ve been doing a lot of community engagement around the general obligation bond to figure out what people want in their communities and how do we design and develop parks that better represent them. And so that is something I’m really excited about too, because you’re going to be seeing a lot of those changes coming out on the ground in the coming years. Um, that might be more dog parks, right? We know that Salt Lake has more dogs than kids. Uh so it’s really important that we we meet that demand. Um, the community’s change to do that. So I think that’s one way. Um I think many of my favorite projects that I’ve worked on in the city have all been community-driven projects. And, you know, they come with their own challenges sometimes, but I think, you know, I look at like Fairmont Park and a lot of the restoration work that we’ve done up there to improve nature and habitat. Um, that was driven by, you know, a local resident Amy Berry, and then kind of uh really championed by another one, Rachel, Rachel Taylor, who uh is a strong advocate for monarchs in in Salt Lake City. Those two individuals changed the shape and space at Fairmont Park forever. Um, and so I think it’s important to recognize that community has a lot more power than maybe they think they do in how they influence city government. Um, and so that’s something that stands out to me is listening and learning of how people are using our spaces and how they can be involved. Um, on the flip side, how does public lands play a role in that? I mean, we already kind of talked about that a little bit, but I think going back, it’s an opportunity for us to really um engage with the public. Um and then I want to talk a little bit about activation and programming, because I think that no matter how well we design a park, if we don’t think about how it’s going to be used, activated, or programmed, um, we won’t be successful. And that’s an area within Salt Lake City Public Lands that we up until four years ago we didn’t have anybody doing programming in in our um department. And so you’ve seen now we are doing a lot more programming with your team and just finding incredible results. It’s we’re providing opportunities for for that social connection. And I think because that’s new, that is something that has been uh needed in the city. And I think as a department, we we can’t solve that entirely, but encouraging other community voices and residents and organizations to help champion that and how we program and show up in these spaces is really important. So I I think activation and programming, community plays a huge role in that. And it’s both in events and all things, I mean it’s in it’s in demonstrations and protests, right? You we we permit those. We allow that to happen, the you know, prioritization of our First Amendment rights in uh in our city parks. So that’s something that’s really exciting as well.
Finola Mcdonald: 14:40
Absolutely. Um okay, switching gears just a tiny bit. If you had to you were tasked to give a 40-minute talk, no breaks, something that you are super passionate about that you could just go on and on and on about related to public lands, what would it be? And can you give us a mini-version of it?
Tyler Murdock: 14:57
Oh I I’ll probably cheat and talk about two things. Um that’s okay.
Finola Mcdonald: 15:06
Yeah, that is allowed.
Kim Davison: 15:07
Yeah, I so as I mentioned, I’ve worked at multiple levels of public land management. Um, the cool thing, aside from one of those jobs, almost every single one of those jobs has had a connection to the Jordan River. And so the Jordan River is something I am deeply passionate about. Um, you know, just a geograph geographical context, it’s the river that connects both Utah Lake and Salt Lake and the Great Salt Lake. You know, it crosses three different counties and I think 18 or 19 different municipalities. It has multiple landowners and and jurisdiction. We have the state involved, the county involved, federal government involved. It crosses so many different uh nexus in in the city. Um, and I think historically it has been just a forgotten asset within Salt Lake, and not just forgotten. Um we’ve mismanaged it, we’ve treated it badly, we’ve polluted it, we’ve done all of these things. So I think it is the location where public lands maybe has the greatest opportunity to improve the natural habitat in Salt Lake City and and to really connect our west side communities, Glendale, Rose Park, Poplar Grove, to an incredible uh amenity within Salt Lake City that I I think has been historically the cultural kind of heart, but I think we’ve maybe forgotten about that a little bit. So I think it really should be the cultural and ecological heart of Salt Lake City’s West Side. And I think a lot of that falls to public lands to deliver uh in a lot of our general obligation bond projects that are coming up, and that’s really exciting. I think in addition to the Jordan River, the second component of that is how do we improve the natural habitat. In our 2022 Reimagined Nature Master Plan, I think the thing that we heard the most loudly from residents in Salt Lake City is a demand and a desire to see their public lands put uh nature and environment first in our spaces. Many of our parks have been kind of green turf areas that we mow and go. Um, and I think people expect more from these spaces, and they expect them to serve habitat and wildlife in a different way. And I think along the Jordan River we have a unique opportunity to do that, and you’re seeing that in some of our projects right now with our restoration ecology program, um, the Cornell Wetlands in Rose Park, um, once a very kind of uh underserved and blighted public space, now is thriving and teeming with incredible native plants, flora and fauna. We have nesting monarch butterflies there and and at several other locations. So a goal of public lands is to transition the Jordan the entirety of the Jordan River corridor from about 15% natural or uh natural lands to closer to 40 to 50 percent in the next 10 years. And so helping prioritize that with our restoration ecology team is something that I’m really, really excited about. It’s gonna require a ton of partners. Um we’ve partnered with the state prison to help grow a lot of our native plants. We partner with the University of Utah and with a lot of other environmental groups here in in the valley, and this is something that I think puts you Salt Lake City uniquely in a position to be a national leader because of some of the team members that we have here within our department that are leading the way in this ecological kind of restoration and preservation of rare and native species.
Finola Mcdonald: 18:30
Yeah.
Kim: 18:31
Yeah, we’re excited to chat with some of them on future episodes because they have such a breadth of knowledge to share. And then it’s kind of up to us as the communications team to really help tell that story of the work that they’re doing. So it’s an exciting thing all around.
Finola Mcdonald: 18:44
Yeah. And can I say I was at Cornell just the other day, and even in the one year about that I’ve been here, it looks it’s stunning. Yeah, I was over on that little boardwalk area just looking out, and it looks so nice. It’s like amazing that it’s it’s just this tiny little pocket right there. And if if anybody listening hasn’t been to Cornell, you should definitely get there. I need to go. I gotta go. I know. So it’s I think it might be one of my favorite spots that we I know.
Tyler Murdock: 19:11
I talk about it so much, Finola. It’s like I I know people are like, what’s what’s so special about it? But I I do think it’s a model for what the Jordan River can become in terms of beauty and aesthetics and serving both a recreational purpose for humans and and visitors or residents of Salt Lake, but also for wildlife and habitat. And I think these places sometimes we think those have to happen in isolation. Cornell’s a perfect example where we can have a highly activated urban trail and still have some incredible wildlife in Salt Lake City and habitat. So yeah, it’s taken time, those things take time, but it I appreciate you saying that because it’s something that I think I’m really um proud of, and I think it as a team, you know, we have such an amazing team that have cared for that space and are just kind of scratching the surface of what they can do at other properties along the Jordan River.
Kim Davison: 19:56
Yeah, 100%. Absolutely. Well, in this next question, so we’re curious how you think people can use public lands that are available to them to connect with their community. We’ve talked about it a little bit, but like you said, I think people, if you go to Liberty Park every Sunday, like they have the places that they go and they love, but again, I’m from here and I have not even explored a lot of these public lands. So I guess how can people connect with them and how do you encourage people to try new places in the community?
Tyler Murdock: 20:25
Yeah, such a good question. And I think uh, you know, there’s a lot of organizations that use our public lands in and build community. And I think finding something that you’re passionate about and looking for those who are are doing that same thing in our public spaces, I think is a great way to do that. Whether that’s hiking in the foothills or birding in the foothills, uh Tracy Aviary is one of our partners and they lead uh a lot of citizen science work and bird monitoring. So if that’s something you’re interested in, seeking those opportunities. Um but this past year I had the opportunity to um to get involved in my first kind of Beehive Sports League. So Beehive Sports, a Salt Lake City-based organization here that leads uh really a lot of our recreation in our public spaces. I think they use our parks and multi-use fields more than any other group in the city. Um that was a really fun uh place to connect, meet new people. And I have friends that I’m still talking to today, friends that um like the same soccer team as me that I met out there playing. And I think those are uh connections that I think are really important. So seeking those out is something that’s really awesome. Um but I think you can also be a part of a community in our public spaces without actually engaging physically with um individuals out there. And one of the my favorite ways to do that, and um, this could also be another 20 minute talk, is uh is on iNaturalist. So yeah, um which we love iNaturalist, which is just simply an app that was created, I don’t know where it came out of, California University PhD student um as a way to document uh flora and fauna in our surroundings. Surrounding area. iNaturalist, even in Utah, has become such an incredible community of people that care about plants, care about birds, and a way for them to document them on their phone. And I I think that’s the community that I really love being a part of. And we’re now using that data in Salt Lake City Foothills as we look at future trail development or restoration work. We’re using iNaturalist data to map where people are documenting certain uh wildlife in the foothills and to help us make decisions on management. And so it’s not only a community tool, it’s really a public land management tool as well.
Finola Mcdonald: 22:35
Yeah. And so cool to see like someone who’s recorded something in the I Naturalist or to know that what you’re recording is really being used. It’s not just going out into the ether of the internet being jotted down. It’s it’s really being put to use. It’s really important.
Tyler Murdock: 22:51
Yeah. Yeah. When we were looking at the foothills, you know, it’s like we could hire a consultant to come in and do a wildlife study across the entirety of the foothills, cost, you know, several hundred thousand dollars, and they probably still would never get the quality of data that we are getting from users who are out there every single day. And, you know, and there’s a hundred stories about this, but there is species being found by individuals using iNaturalist that have never been documented before. Um that is mind-boggling to me. I believe there was even a spider in Glendale a couple years ago that had never been documented that was reported on iNaturalist. Like it’s it’s just fascinating that that tool is being used.
Finola Mcdonald: 23:32
Um and then is there anything coming up uh with public lands that you’re excited to share for folks to get excited about, connected with?
Tyler Murdock: 23:41
Yeah, I I mean we’ve talked a little bit about the Restoration Ecology program. It’s something, once again, seek uh an opportunity to maybe get out and plant with those teams this year. We host a lot of volunteer events. Uh that’s really exciting to me, and it’s a great way to connect with people who have like interest. But I would maybe focus more on the kind of once-in-a-generational work that we’re doing right now related to the general obligation park spond. Uh, I don’t want to minimize the significance of this work. We currently today have more funding available to parks and infrastructure in the city than we ever have in the history of Salt Lake. And I think that is an obligation that we don’t take lightly. Uh and it’s something we’ve been doing a lot of community engagement on. But just this year, I believe we will go under construction with at least 15 different park improvement or new park projects here in the city. Uh, that doesn’t happen often. And so you’re gonna see a lot of disturbances in our parks this summer uh and into next year, but at the same time, we are going to be delivering uh much higher quality uh parks that represent the communities and adding some of our, you know, Glendale Park phase two is probably the one that I’m most excited about. Uh we have designers building a world-class, you know, bike pump track, we have designers building a world-class skate park, an ice ribbon. Those are features and amenities that don’t currently exist in Salt Lake right now. So it’s hard to not be excited about that regional park development that’s coming in the next two years.
Kim Davison: 25:10
Yeah, Glendale is awesome. It’s gonna be incredible. So we are also wondering, since you’ve worked for Public Lands for a while in a myriad of different roles, which project are you the proudest to have been a part of?
Tyler Murdock: 25:22
There’s so many. Uh, and there’s we’ve talked about a couple here today. One that we haven’t really talked about is is the Three Creeks Confluence Project. I think that’s uh that when I started here, that was a project I was involved in, um, working closely with the community group or the student group. It started as a University of Utah student-led project out of their city uh planning program. Uh a former city planning director was teaching that class and encouraged them to think big and to engage in in public land management. So they they came up with the idea of trying to uncover many of the streams in Salt Lake City and to daylight those. Three Creeks Confluence Project was the first project that they took on and worked with us in the city to request funding. Uh that project, I started working on that project probably in 2016, doing initial engagement and trying to find the funds to get that one done. And it was completed in 2021 and is now just a really incredible public asset along the Jordan River. I I think I love it for maybe two or three reasons. The first is it was a, once again, a student-led project. I think sometimes we don’t recognize how much impact people who are thinking big in in the classrooms up at the University of Utah can have in our public spaces, and that’s a direct correlation of that. I think two, it’s probably the first new park, you know, prior to Glendale, it’s probably the first new park in Salt Lake City’s west side in 20 years, uh, maybe not quite that long. And so I think when you think about park equity, it makes me really proud to deliver such a high-quality park in the Glendale neighborhood of Salt Lake City where perhaps the park equity uh and accessible parks to nature parks is not as available as it has been on our east side with close proximity to the foothills. So I think bridging that gap was something that was really exciting to me. And then I think third, it it lays the foundation of what the Jordan River can become and how it can connect people to the river in a meaningful way. Uh in Salt Lake City, the river is very entrenched along a lot of the corridors. We have nine miles in Salt Lake City, and it’s in a lot of places you can’t even see the Jordan River. Uh, and so that is an opportunity at Three Creeks to kind of pull back some of that invasive vegetation and let people get down and experience the water. I I love going there with my kids because you can get right on the water, you can throw rocks in, and I think it sets a precedent of how we need to connect the river to the people who are using it in a more uh effective way. So that’s probably one that excites me the most.
Kim Davison: 27:52
That’s very exciting.
Finola Mcdonald: 27:53
It is, yeah. And then last but not least, if there is one piece of advice or a message that you could give to folks listening to the community about our public lands and their impact, what would it be?
Tyler Murdock: 28:09
Uh you know, I I think we have a mission and obligation as a department to maintain and deliver high-quality parks. How however, I think we all play a role in that. And I think maybe the one piece of advice I would give is that uh we you should not think of yourself as a public lands user solely, but as a public lands steward or co-steward with our department, with the city in managing these public spaces. We all have an obligation. Um, you know, we’re fortunate to be able to be paid to work in this environment, which I I feel very grateful for every day. But users every day have uh an opportunity to become a steward and care for a space. And that could look different for everybody. Uh, you know, it was on spring break last weekend uh in San Diego and was doing a morning walk with the kids on in a nature park that I um we frequently were down there, and I noticed a bunch of new plants that were there. I was like, who is taking care of these? So the next morning I got up early, went out and walked and met Jim, who was uh a neighbor who was out there, and uh because I want those social connections, I went and talked to him and was like, Hey, what are you doing here today? Um he’s like, Well, I I take my my wagon and I walk up and down the the the park here and I just hand water the 50 plants. I’ve adopted those 50 plants. And uh you know it’s uh that happens in Salt Lake City too, but it was just really precious. This guy who is retired lives across the street and he was out there with a watering can and a and a wheelbarrow or a a uh little trailer walking around and watering those plants. We all can do that. And I think when we all recognize that we’re part of something bigger, we are going to uh make better decisions and we’re gonna have better places to care for and better places to leave for uh future generations of visitors and residents of Salt Lake. So I think take a role and be and be a co-steward.
Kim Davison: 30:01
Yeah, we could all be more like Jim, it seems like I know. Well, this was amazing. I feel like I learned so much. And I every time we record a podcast episode, I feel like the two of us are reminded about how lucky we are to work in this space and do this impactful work. So thank you so much for joining us and just kind of taking us on a deep dive about community and how it can connect to our public lands. Yeah, thank you.
Tyler Murdock: 30:25
Oh, thank you both. It’s been a pleasure, and uh, you guys are doing great work to help share the story of Public Lands. So I appreciate being here. Thank you guys for you.
Both: 30:32
Thank you. Thank you.
Finola Mcdonald: 30:33
Thank you all for joining us for this week’s episode of the Public Lands podcast.
Kim Davison: 30:37
Chat soon,
Finola Mcdonald: 30:37
and we’ll see you on the trail.