The Public Lands Podcast EPISODE 4: The Life Cycle of a Public Lands Project with Kat Andra
Kim Davison: 00:11
Hi everyone, I’m Kim
Finola McDonald: 00:13
and I’m Finola.
Both: 00:13
Speaker 2: 00:14
Welcome to the Public Lands Podcast.
Finola McDonald: 00:16
Speaker 2: 00:18
Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the Public Lands Podcast.
Kim Davison: 00:22
Speaker 2: 00:22
We are so excited because today we have Kat Andra from our planning team joining us to talk about the life cycle of a Public Lands project.
Finola McDonald: 00:29
Kat is a senior planning strategist in the department who works very hard to make sure our parks are accessible, sustainable, and easy for everyone to enjoy.
Kim Davison: 00:37
Kat, welcome! Welcome! We are so happy that you’re here.
Kat Andra: 00:41
Thank you. Big fan. Super nervous, so excited. So thanks for watching.
Kim Davison: 00:44
Kat Andra: 00:44
Oh no!
Finola McDonald: 00:46
It’s gonna be amazing. We have wanted you on this podcast since day one, like we said before. We like knew we wanted to interview you, so we are extra stoked to have you with us.
Kim Davison: 00:56
And selfishly, I mean, I would love to get to know you a little bit better. So can you tell us a little bit about your background? Like, are you from Utah? Have you always been interested in this work? We just want to know everything about Kat.
Kat Andra: 01:09
Oh, yeah, I would love to dive in a little bit. Um, I am from Utah. I grew up downtown pretty much. Um, went to West High School. Ego Panthers, you too. Amazing. Um, I went to West, uh, ended up going to school, my undergrad at University of Portland, and I studied psychology. Um, came back here, worked for the University of Utah for a little bit, and I think that’s kind of when I uh knew I wanted to make a switch in my career to maybe something a little bit more environmentally oriented. So I ended up getting my master’s at the University of Utah in environmental chemistry and biology. Um a scientist. Yeah. Aspiring still. Um so yeah, graduated um while I was there doing my master’s, I worked for a nonprofit land trust here in Salt Lake City doing land conservation. So got to spend a lot of time in the field. I actually built a lot of relationships with folks at Salt Lake City Public Lands. So kind of as that started, I kind of knew I wanted to dive into the public sector a little bit. Um, yeah, worked pretty hard to build these connections so I could eventually get a job here. Um and then in 2021, I started as public lands planner uh in the public lands department. Um, me and Tyler Murdoch, who might be on another episode, I think were the two project managers at the time. And then just kind of yeah, everything happened from there. Um, but yeah, I tried really hard not to follow my dad’s footsteps. He was a forester, um, but ended up here you are the same people anyway. So yeah, so that’s a little bit about me.
Kim Davison: 02:42
And we are so lucky to have you. You do very true important work for the department.
Finola McDonald: 02:47
So you’re so cool, guys.
Kat Andra: 02:48
Thank you so much, guys.
Finola McDonald: 02:51
Um okay, I guess diving right into projects. For folks who maybe see or hear these words floating around the Salt Lake City space in general or public land space, can you tell us what a GO Bond project is?
Kat Andra: 03:04
Yes. So in 2022, Salt Lake City residents um voted on a GO Bond, uh, which is a general obligation bond for parks, trails, and open space in Salt Lake City. Um that was an $85 million bond for a bunch of parks, trails, and open space projects in Salt Lake City. Um and so it passed by 76%, which is huge. It’s like very high, um, which is amazing. Our residents truly do value open space in parks, which makes this job even more fun. Um, but since 2022, our team of landscape architects and planners have been working on um building parks, trails, and open spaces and making improvements to our current projects and our current spaces with that GO bond funding, so that $85 million. So some projects you might hear about a lot. Glendale Regional Park is the first regional park that we’ve built as a city in over 60 years. So phase one’s open now, phase two will open in a couple of years. Um the Folsom Trail connecting the city east-west is underway. We have reimagined neighborhood parks, one in each council district kind of going on right now. Steam Lick is under construction, Ida Cotton’s about to be under construction. Um, Rotary Play Park in our flagship Liberty Park is under construction right now as well. And that’s gonna be a fully adaptive, um, brand new playground that’s gonna kind of be state-of-the-art and super duper cool. So everyone should check that out when it opens. Um yeah, just improvements in our parks and open spaces uh over the next I think like three to five years, we should be tying up all of those, and then yeah, we’ll work on maintaining those and smaller projects uh moving on from there. So yeah, is there anything else you guys want to know about that?
Finola McDonald: 04:50
I actually do have another question about it because I wasn’t here, I mean I wasn’t here and I wasn’t a part of public lands um in any real capacity at in 2022. But so when we got that bond, was it up to the department to choose what was going to happen with it? Were there set plans for that money already? Or did that kind of spiral out?
Kat Andra: 05:14
Really good question. So we worked with the Trust for Public Lands for several years prior to getting the bond on the ballot to do a lot of engagement. We did statistically valid surveys to kind of determine what priorities the public had. Um we also did our Reimagine Nature Public Lands Master Plan with extensive public engagement to kind of tee us up for understanding what the system needs, what the community needs, what residents wanted to see. And so we took all of that information and came up with a project list based on, we call it kind of level of service. So, like how well are we serving our residents in various areas of the community and how well are we delivering what people want to see? And so we kind of took that and made a list of all of the areas where we kind of needed improvement. We could see new regional parks or trail connections were missing. And so by the time we got to 2022 when the bond was on the ballot, the public already was aware of where all of those dollars were going to be going. So when they voted, they kind of had the list in front of them to understand this is where your money’s going, this is what you can expect to see in the next few years, um, which honestly made the voter um the 76% thumbs up rate even better because we kind of knew, okay, we hit at least a little bit, um, hit the mark a little bit in terms of what the public wants to see and what we’re hoping to deliver. So it’s been a long process. I think honestly, the master plan was huge and kind of teeing us up for that. Um, but yeah, we’re super lucky and super excited to kind of start seeing these projects come online.
Kim Davison: 06:45
So cool. It’s amazing, especially it’s um it’s good to hear I’m a native Salt Lake Salt Laker, like you, and that the community cares so much about the work that does happen and wanted to be involved and was engaged is huge.
Kat Andra: 07:02
Yeah. I mean, since I’ve been here, we’ve been doing a lot of community engagement and the residents show up and it’s just a really fun thing to see and yeah, fun thing to be a part of.
Kim Davison: 07:12
Absolutely. So just another kind of term that’s thrown around in the project world is a CIP project. Can you explain what that is for people as well, just to kind of break down?
Kat Andra: 07:24
Yes, for sure. So CIP is our um Capital Improvement Program. So it’s a citywide run program that kind of allows different divisions, departments to apply for capital funding on an annual basis. And so what capital funding is is it’s basically infrastructure, in our case, park amenities are assets that cost at least $50,000 and have a useful life of five years or more. So not necessarily operational funding or like ongoing maintenance, but it’s those big ticket kind of assets that need to get replaced, new things that we need in our parks to kind of serve our community. And so the department has an opportunity on an annual basis to apply for that funding. And then we have a community board, the mayor, and city council who kind of weigh in on our priorities and kind of help us make a decision about what gets funded. Um, and so that’s honestly how outside of the Go Bond, how a vast majority of our planning and design division and public lands department’s projects get funded. Um and so yeah, we have dozens uh ongoing at any given moment and kind of hope to get those online relatively quickly after they’re funded. So even without the bond, um we’re still kind of cooking on our team to get projects built and on the ground. Um and then a really cool element that I hope people know about, but um I always love to talk about is the constituency IP process. So every year when departments submit applications, so like September-ish is usually when that process starts, um, the city also opens it up to constituents. So if any constituent has an idea for a project the city hasn’t delivered so far, they can submit an application that gets weighed with along with the department priorities and get projects funded that way. So um, yeah, we have a lot of examples of those in the works right now and a ton of great projects um up for potential funding this year. So if anyone’s interested, definitely check that process out. That’s so cool. Yeah, I didn’t know about that at all either. Yeah, it’s pretty awesome. Anyone can apply if you’re in a resident of Salt Lake City.
Finola McDonald: 09:28
Oh, that’s good to know. Yeah.
Kim Davison: 09:30
Finola’s gonna apply!
Kat Andra: 09:31
Do it.
Finola McDonald: 09:33
Got something brewing. Yes. Um, and so as senior planning strategist, um, does that mean that you have your hands in a lot of different kinds of projects? Is there um like what kind of projects do you typically work on? Is it a bunch of different stuff? Is it one specific thing? Do you choose? Is it just whatever you gotta get done? Um and like what’s what’s a typical day in your life at work?
Kat Andra: 09:59
Those are great questions. I don’t know if I have a typical day. Um, but I will start with some of the things I’m working on. I think one of the biggest projects that’s the most definable that I’m working on, it’s called the SCAMP, but it’s um the strategic capital acquisition and asset management plan.
Kim Davison: 10:16
The scamp is important.
Kat Andra: 10:18
Yes, we we all need to scamp. Um, but it’s basically a strategic plan for our department to tell us how we should be spending capital funds over the next 10 years, how we should be prioritizing our acquisition over the next 10 years, and then how we can maintain, replace, and update our current assets on the ground over the next 10 years. So that’s one of my biggest projects. Um and it kind of leads into other things that I do. Um, this plan will hopefully tell us how we need to be prioritizing our CIP or capital improvement projects, um, how we need to be looking at asset replacement so we don’t have failed playgrounds and ADA violations on the ground every year. And so a big part of my job is kind of anticipating what we need next year and getting our ducks in the row to make sure we’re ready to both make those funding requests and work with the appropriate divisions and departments to kind of make those happen. And then once they get funded, working with our team to make sure that we can execute and implement. So my job kind of evolves. Um, but it’s really fun to kind of be forward-thinking and um have my hands and a lot of different things around the department and be familiar and get to work with all of our divisions. So yeah, that’s been really fun. And then um, I am still I started one of my biggest projects when I started was Glendale Regional Park. Um, I started with the master plan and then kind of moved into design, and we’re in phase two now after phase one has opened, and so I still get to kind of be involved with that one on a relatively regular basis, which is super fun.
Kim Davison: 11:48
Yeah, that’s definitely a special one. And we I think we get what you’re saying. Nobody in public lands seems to have a typical day, which is, I think, a good thing about working here is that every every day looks different, and you get to work on all different kinds of projects and be kind of creative, so it can be fun. For sure. So, the big thing we wanted to chat to you about on this episode is the life cycle of a project. And we don’t know anything about this. We love to learn from you. Um, and so to start out, where does a project usually begin?
Kat Andra: 12:21
Great question. Usually an idea from someone somewhere, it could be a constituent that reaches out. I think those all make it on a list to be evaluated. Um, our primary source of where a project starts, though, is really from our master plans. We have um our reimagine nature, which is kind of like our guiding document for the planning and design team, and I think the department as a whole. And then we’ve also done kind of mini master planning efforts for different parks and open spaces throughout the city to kind of understand a little bit better about what we have and what’s needed and what the community wants. And so most of our ideas come from those master planning efforts. Um, and they’re kind of prioritized just based on need, how the communities are changing, how quickly those are happening, and then the state of affairs currently, like what’s on the ground and how bad that it needs attention. Um, and so from there, really it’s an internal prioritization effort with a department, our maintenance and operations folks to decide kind of what can we take on right now, what needs to be our highest priority, and then we go through the CIP process or more rarely a bond process to kind of get funding for all of those projects. So that’s kind of the first step is just figuring out what we need and then getting money. Makes sense, yeah.
Finola McDonald: 13:39
And then once funds are acquired, what happens next?
Kat Andra: 13:44
Um, yeah, once we get money, um I think the fun part begins. So our team, as I mentioned, we’re full of planners and landscape designers. And depending on the nature of the project, what kind of project gets funded, um, one of our very talented team members gets assigned the project. And from there we kind of work on scoping. So what gets funded is probably like a three or four sentence description with like a dollar amount. And so from there we kind of have to determine what are the individual elements we need, do we need to consider site layout? Do we have to do any community engagement and things like that? So our LAs, our landscape architects, and our planners kind of go through this scoping effort to kind of determine exactly what’s needed. And then oftentimes we will get a consultant under contract. So we have a pool of local consultants that kind of help us with design, and sometimes for larger projects, we’ll go out to bid so we can kind of ask anyone really nationwide if you want to come help us with this, you can uh bid on this project. Um, and so then our landscape architects planners will kind of manage our consultants, get the design where it needs to be, and um that process varies based on complexity of the process, but a full design effort um can take, I don’t know, anywhere from like six months to a couple of years. Um and it’s very cross-departmental. Um we have design reviews with every division and department, we do community engagement along the way. So it’s a pretty robust effort to make sure what we are putting on the ground is what’s right for the city. Um and so once that’s all kind of nailed nailed down, we go through the permitting process through Salt Lake City. So we basically have to say, are your drawings engineered correctly? Is anything gonna fall down? Can we build this on the ground? Does it comply with Salt Lake City’s codes, regulations, and ordinances? Um and so once we get the thumbs up there, then we work with our architectural and construction management division. Um over in I actually don’t know if they’re in public services, but our ACM group, architectural and construction management, and they help us um get the park built. So we’ll go out to bid, get a contractor on board, construction begins. Um, and throughout that whole time, we’re also engaging in community engagement, letting the public know what’s going on, when parks will be closed, what they can expect to see, and things like that. So our planners and landscape architects are really involved from honestly before a project is funded all the way until it’s closed out at the very end and handed over to our maintenance and operations folks. So yeah, yeah, the whole process.
Kim Davison: 16:26
And that’s always fun because towards the end is when we get to work with you all and kind of think about how to tell the story of each project and really make sure that we’re communicating these updates to the public. So we love working with you all and think it’s really fun. But what is the process of kind of like finishing a project after it’s been built and then opening it to the public? I’m sure it must be pretty rewarding to see the thing that was on paper physically there and have, you know, if it’s a playground, kids using it and all of that stuff. So what is that like?
Kat Andra: 16:58
Yeah, I mean, I I think you’d be hard pressed to find someone that didn’t think that was part of probably one of the best parts of our job was being there for like the grand opening events and things like that. Um, I remember when I started, I think my second or third day, we had a grand opening of Three Creeks Confluence Park, and I was just like crying the whole time, like, this is the best ever, I’m so lucky, but they’re all like that, honestly. Um and just like shout out to your team. I remember, yeah, before we have not, we didn’t have like a robust team and the support that we had with you all, and um, it was definitely not as successful. So thank you guys so much for all the work that you do. Um, yeah, you make it even better for us and for the community enjoying those spaces. But um, yeah, we basically tie things up with our contractor, do like a final inspection, and then work with kind of your guys’ team to come up with a day that works to do the grand opening. Um, and it’s a little nerve-wracking because basically when we open, it’s like this is it. Now we there’s no turning back. So if something goes wrong, we gotta like fix it on the fly, which happens all the time and it works out great. But um, yeah, super exciting, super rewarding, really fun to see. I know you’re both at the Glendale phase one grand opening, and um, it was the best. It was so cool. I know.
Kim Davison: 18:17
I was gonna say we put a bow on it literally, because I put I had to order one of those huge bows that you see like in movies to put on the crane, and it felt very iconic to me.
Kat Andra: 18:26
It was it was amazing, and yeah, that event I could not have asked for anything better. It was so awesome. And um, driving by, we’re there often just like checking in on things. Uh, it is packed all the time, so it’s super fun to see basically since that event. So that must be so exciting today.
Finola McDonald: 18:42
It’s fun to like see these spaces activated after you spent so long. Yeah. Because so from start to finish, I’m sure it varies, but like ballpark, you said it could take the first process could take months to a few years. Is there like a general timeline of how long these take ballpark, or does it really depend?
Kat Andra: 19:04
It really depends. I think like um, if you’re looking at like a Glendale Regional Park, like we started that master planning process in 2021, and we’re just opening our first phases now, so um long time. Again, that’s like our first regional park in 60 years. There was a lot of pre-planning and design that went into that, and it’s a huge park. Um, but something like another project is I’ll say Taufer Park is one of our general obligation bond projects, smaller scale, still a lot of community engagement went into that, but the timeline is probably a lot more a lot more condensed than something like a Glendale Park. So I think anywhere from like a year to a Glendale Park scale, which is several, um, but typically probably like one to three years for the scale of the projects that we’re working on on a regular basis, from funding to a grand opening.
Finola McDonald: 19:55
But so much goes into it, so it’s important, I think, for folks to know. Like yeah, just that it it does take a minute because we are putting, or you you all really are putting so much thought into each and every piece of the process. Yeah. Yeah. Um what else do you wish that folks knew um about maybe public engagement and how that comes into play when these spaces are being developed?
Kat Andra: 20:22
I’m uh really grateful for Salt Lake City residents, I think. Like people show up when we ask them questions and um are not afraid to kind of like share what they’re feeling, and they are strong advocates, I’d say, overall for their communities. And so they’re extremely yeah, great to work with, provide a lot of information, find so much context and like um yeah, richness to our communities that I think we would be totally remiss to not kind of acknowledge and engage with throughout the process. Um with that being said, engagement processes often take um kind of a long time as well. So sometimes a project will get funded, for example, and we have a bit of engagement to do to kind of refine the scope and like figure out what people actually want to see on the ground. And that kind of lends itself to or that leads into the project timeline. So sometimes a project will get funded, we’ll have six months of engagement to do, and it will look like we’re not really doing anything. Um, we’re kind of doing some of this behind-the-scenes work. Um, but it does extend project timelines, and so uh sometimes it’s worth taking that time to make sure what’s on the ground is actually what the community wants to see and what’s benefiting the community. Um yeah, I think if I were to say anything to everyone, keep engaging. It like truly makes a huge difference. Um, one example that comes to mind, I think, is like um we were doing some engagement for Glendale phase one on the design. Pickleball made it in, but it wasn’t supposed to make it in until phase two. The community showed up. Up told us we need this in phase one, and it ended up actually getting built before phase one was complete. Um, just because we now understood like what people were asking for and what the community needed, so um keep showing up, it really does make a difference. I know it’s exhausting sometimes because we do ask a lot of questions and ask a lot of our communities, um, but yeah, it’s really important to inform the design, and we want to make sure that everything that we’re doing really does serve our residents and visitors.
Kim Davison: 22:29
But those pickleball courts are a great example because that was the first kind of event that I went to when I started this role, and that community is so passionate, and it was I did was not even a part of the project at all, and it was really rewarding, and I felt proud of our department to see how big of an impact that was going to make in like people’s Saturdays or just you know after work to be compressed, so it felt really amazing to see.
Kat Andra: 22:54
Yeah, yeah, and I feel like that’s kind of really why we do it. Like, nobody wants to put something in a park or open space that’s not working for the community, and so yeah, it’s definitely validating to like have experiences like that where you’re like, hey, we were able to listen, it might have taken a little bit of time, but it’s like what’s right for that space, so yeah, it’s pretty special, definitely.
Kim Davison: 23:15
Well, I feel like you’ve touched on this a little bit, but because you’ve been working here for a little while and your role has kind of evolved, what are some of your favorite projects that you’ve been a part of or that you’ve seen whether you were directly involved, it could even just be like planning as a whole.
Kat Andra: 23:30
Mmm, good question. Glendale’s near and dear.
Kim Davison: 23:35
It’s gonna be amazing.
Finola McDonald: 23:37
Yeah, it’s so big, like yeah.
Kat Andra: 23:39
Uh it is a lot, and I think I’m really excited for phase two. Like, we’re putting a lot of stuff in there. Um, but it’s been cool to kind of I’ve learned so much throughout that process and like start at kind of the very beginning of the planning phase and then see it um full circle, like being built has been super exciting. Um, I’ll say same with uh Bachman community open space, it’s along the Jordan River between 5th and 7th North. Um, but that was a community-generated vision. Public lands didn’t start with that. The community came to us and said, this is something that we want here, and so kind of seeing that from its early stages through it being built has been super special. Um, and then I love the strategic plan uh just to kind of um uh formalize some processes, have a clear vision of what we want, uh, get a better understanding of what our needs are, and kind of work with everyone in the department has been super fun. So those are probably my tops. Love it.
Finola McDonald: 24:37
Um we have some fun rapid fire questions for you after all of this um planning talk. But because you’re local and have been here, what is your favorite public land in the city? We would love to know. Oh, the wrong answer.
Kim Davison: 24:57
And you can say multiple.
Kat Andra: 24:59
Yeah, I feel like this is kind of cheating because it it encapsulates many. But I think that I love the Jordan River Parkway trail, Jordan River. Um, I used to commute on the trail into work on my bike. Um, there are so many little secret nodes along the way, and I’m really excited. Um, one of our planners, Michaela, just finished up the Emerald Ribbon action plan that I think is gonna bring a lot of appreciation to the Jordan River, so I’m really excited to see that. Um and I love biking, so foothill trails have been really fun. So.
Finola McDonald: 25:35
Do you mountain bike?
Kat Andra: 25:36
Oh, yeah it’s so fun.
Kim Davison: 25:37
I wish. That’s so fun.
Finola McDonald: 25:38
Kat Andra: 25:38
So scary to me. So big kudos.
Finola McDonald: 25:42
Um and because we love to explore the city, not just um our public lands, and we love a recommendation. What are some of your favorite local businesses around Salt Lake City?
Kat Andra: 25:53
Oh, that’s such a good question. Um my recent ventures this weekend were Fountain Records. It’s a record shop by the Leonardo, and I went on record store day, and the owner is just so precious and gives the best recommendations. There’s a coffee shop inside the record store.
Kim Davison: 26:14
It’s very close to the city and county building.
Kat Andra: 26:16
Yeah.
Kim Davison: 26:16
Kim Davison: 26:17
Is that attached to babies bagels?
Kat Andra: 26:18
Yes, right next door.
Kim Davison: 26:20
Okay.
Finola McDonald: 26:20
Okay. We love babies.
Kat Andra: 26:26
And then I love a little vintage thrift moment. So I’ve been frequenting Oliver and Princess Natasha’s lately. Have you been there?
Finola McDonald: 26:32
Yes.
Kim Davison: 26:33
No.
Finola McDonald: 26:34
I went last year for the first time.
Kat Andra: 26:35
It’s my recent obsession.
Kim Davison: 26:37
I think I would love it.
Kat Andra: 26:38
It’s really cute.
Kim Davison: 26:38
I can’t believe I haven’t been.
Kat Andra: 26:40
So definitely check them out. We’ll take a group trip. Yes. Let’s do it.
Kim Davison: 26:45
Um well, our last question is very catered to you. But at Public Lands, we love pups and we know that you foster dogs. So tell us a little bit about what it’s like to foster dogs and what organization you go through.
Kat Andra: 26:58
Oh, yes, I could go on for about this, so please stop me. Um, yes, I love fostering dogs. I have two little permanent babies of my own. They’ve all come from Cause, so it’s Community Animal Welfare Society. We’ve been fostering from them since 2020. I think we’ve had 30 some fosters. Um so rewarding. The organization is amazing. I’ll try not to um push it too hard, but they pay for everything. They set you up as a foster, they make it so easy.
Kim Davison: 27:31
Well, and if people foster, it’s a great way for them to explore our public lands with these pups.
Kat Andra: 27:37
So totally, totally. So yeah, check them out, cause both of ours, little uh we have a Frida and Marty, and they’re both from Cause too.
Finola McDonald: 27:46
Marty, we love them.
Kim Davison: 27:48
Public Lands is a very like pro-dog office. So luckily we get to meet all of our lovely co-workers’ pups. But we just had to have you plug this organization because we know it’s a big part of your life.
Kat Andra: 27:59
Thank you. Yeah, a day in the office without a dog here is kind of a sad day, honestly. I know.
Finola McDonald: 28:05
It’s luckily hard to come by. True. I feel like there is often a four-legged friend running around. Well, Kat, it was such a joy to have you here with us. Thank you so, so much.
Kim Davison: 28:17
Yes, and we can’t wait to keep seeing the amazing work you do for our department. So thank you for joining us.
Kat Andra: 28:22
Yes, thank you so much for having me. And um, yeah, we would not be a success without you all either. So thank you so much for all that you guys do.
Kim Davison: 28:30
It’s a group effort.
Kat Andra: 28:31
It really is a pleasure hanging out with you today. So thank you.
Kim Davison: 28:33
Kat Andra: 28:33
Thanks, Kat.
Speaker 2: 28:35
Thank you all for joining us for this week’s episode of the Public Lands Podcast.
Kim Davison: 28:39
Chat soon,
Finola McDonald: 28:40
and we’ll see you on the trail.